Today (or at least at the day of this article publication – 13.04 at 11:00 CET) the biggest annual Polish Warcry tournament is taking place in Warsaw (all the list and results are available HERE). 40 players submitted lists, so it will most likely be one of the biggest match play events in Warcry. This text is documenting the overcomplicated and needlessly complex way I overanalyze the battlepack and predict tournament meta to gain some form of advantage, so lets dive straight in. (I assume the reader to know Warcry jargon and “competitive language” of the game. In case something is not clear I suggest checking the Warcry Dictionary)
1. Limitations
Monsters are banned and due to very limited hobby time (I have 2 month old baby at home and TO published tournament pack very late, so there were only 3 weeks of testing before list submission deadline) I will not consider warbands outside of my collection. Painting few missing models is fine – starting new faction is sadly not an option. This limits my options to: whole grand alliance of Death and Destruction and half of Order (Chaos options I have do not fit the battlepack well, so I won’t bother mentioning them).
2. Tournament Pack
As Listbuilding is strictly connected with battlepack, let’s start here. We will play 4 rounds with every round randomly drawing a mission from a pool of two. First round is one of 2 missions from Mark of Chaos battlepack (designed by me, link HERE), next 3 rounds will use 6 different missions from Tidal Pack 2 (I will call it this way as theSaltySea yet not published the second iteration of his pack, so they might change in “official” release). Lets take closer look to the missions. I will shorten the descriptions, if you are interested with full pack, its available HERE. Devine blessings (“fixed” during listbuilding) are allowed.
During first round will we will play one of the missions below:
Battleplan 1A
Treasure mission with treasure holding scored every round (1VP), additional scoring for killing treasure carriers (1VP) and Twist dealing 1 wound to everyone within 3″ of treasure every turn.
Battleplan 1B
Kill mission where every round you pick a different fighter and compare his damage from attack actions (only) with the output of the fighter selected by your opponent. Higher damage grants 1VP and in case difference is higher than 5 you gain 2VP. The Twist lets you (you chose before the game) roll 8 initiative dice at the cost of wild dice generation.
Mission pool for second round:
Battleplan 2A
Treasure mission where you pick 2 enemy fighters that will carry treasure. Killing selected fighters gives you 1VP and every treasure carried grants 1VP every round. Additionally treasure carriers within 4″ of battlefield edge get D6 damage every turn.
Battleplan 2B
Treasure mission, basically Loot and Pillage from Rumble Pack (original available HERE) with modified scoring. Each treasure grants 1VP for first 3 turns and 3VP in final round.
Third round will be drawn from:
Battleplan 3A
Treasure mission with 3 objectives that are removed from play after 1st time any player controls them. That player scores 1VP and one of that player fighters contesting removed objective now carries a treasure. After the game every treasure gives 2VP.
Battleplan 3B
Objective/Kill mission with central objective and 4 extra objectives placed by players. Controlling objective grants 1VP, additionally killing a fighter contesting the same objective also grants 1VP.
Final round pool:
Battleplan 4A
Kill mission where every round you select a target that you will need to kill this game. Selected fighters within 4″ of battlefield edge get D6 damage after every round and grant 1VP when killed with additional VP for having highest Wounds characteristic in game or being a leader.
Battleplan 4B
“Kill mission” that gives 2VP for every kill and 3VP for reaching objectives on opposite side of the map (fighter is then removed from the game).
3. Mission summary
Half of the missions are treasure missions, we have 50% chance for treasure mission during first and third round and second round will have treasures for sure, so there is 25% chance for 3 rounds of treasure missions, 50% chance for two treasure rounds and second round as only one with treasure in remaining 25% of situations. This means that treasure missions are the key for getting to the last round with the highest potential standing.
Objectives on the other hand are almost completely absent. Outside of 2 situations where objectives are used to get treasures (battleplans 2B and 3A) there is only one “true” objective battleplan (3B), that has the secondary scoring that rewards killing, so taking small and fragile fighters just to have more bodies on objectives looks like a losing proposition. Important aspect of the pack is that third round must have some objectives, so despite everything I just said objectives can’t be ignored while listbuilding.
Lastly, there are 3 or 4 battleplans that can be identified as “kill mission” with the final round having two kill missions to draw from. All kill missions have scoring constructed in a way that can’t be cheated by resurrection, so bringing a fighter back is not preventing opponent from scoring.
Deployment wise the maps are not balanced. Shield starts the game in reserve in half of the cases and Dagger is deployed R1 most often (75%) with Hammer in between them with 5 first round starts. Shield also starts first round in both cases where objective control is part of the mission. From treasure point of view the most important deployment group is certainly Hammer, as it is deployed first round in all treasure missions.
The general plan for listbuilding before diving into more details:
A lot of treasures per mission (3,4,5,6) require having few competent treasure carriers (ideal world is 2 primary treasure carriers in Dagger and Hammer and 2 secondary ones in Hammer and Shield)
Potential “objective tricks” should go to Shield
Damage and durability are the most important warband aspects, as almost all battleplans are kill or treasure based
Shield is the least impactful group
There is real opportunity cost connected with running easy to kill chaff
4. Battleplans analysis
As far as deployment group position in relation to treasures and “lootable” objecives is concerned it looks like Hammer requires a big fighter to fight over key treasures and a secondary treasure carrier with at least 4″ move. Let’s look again at the only maps with known treasure position:
In the picture above I expect the game to resolve around center objective. I expect Shield to always be the weakest deployment group so both players should be able to overpower opponents Shield and keep the side treasures. The treasure in the corner of the map requires minimum of two 4″ move actions from Hammer or two 6″ move actions from Dagger, so it will be easiest to reach it from Hammer. In case of winning initiative moving the treasure as far away from opposing Dagger and Hammer is “default” first activation. Big fighter in Hammer is required to conquer one of the treasures in case of losing initiative (which means losing central objective in most cases) or to survive similar approach by the opponent in case of grabbing the central treasure.
In the only other battleplan with “fixed” treasure position I would suggest the situation where the 4″+ move secondary treasure carrier is going first and the bigger threat is used to “countercharge” the opponent that will try to pin the treasure in place. In case of losing initiative (and no inspiring presence) the smaller treasure guy should secure the 2nd treasure and the big guy should contest the first one looted. This is the most scary mission if opponent has access to teleports, otherwise it often results in 2/3 isolated fights, due to expected Shield weakness instead of contesting the side treasures they might “reinforce” the fight in the center.
In the mission 1B it is a good idea to have a long range shooting in Dagger/Shield and some netters to prevent your opponent from scoring at all (with won initiative). For this mission best position for netter is Shield.
“Hiding” your smallest bodies in Shield lets you avoid selecting them as thieves in battleplan 2A. Focusing on treasures (in case thieves drop them) looks like the way to go.
With placing your own objectives if you create a triangle with exactly 6″ between objectives, then any fighter directly between them will be in range for all 3 (the math behind that require base radius of minimum 0,92″, which is basically every base in the game). This is very important for potential You Messin’ setup.
Last mission I want to refer to is 4B and from my (very limited) experience its better to engage the enemy as close to your gates as possible. Option to disengage from unfavorable combat and disappear in the gate is great, so some early and potentially risky moves straight to your opponent side of the board might not be the worst idea.
5. Grand Alliances and Listbuilding
Lets start with Death – abundance of treasures makes running Dire Wolves a great idea, as there is no greater fighter that can steal distant treasures for cheap.
Refresh of FEC gave treasure bearers a way out in form of “double teleport”
Usually I would look for tournament list candidates within Soulblight Gravelords, but the need for durable fighters and no possibility to cheat kill missions with resurrection moved my attention towards OBR, that was usually a close second choice.
The list I built (using warcrier.net) during my first attempt to “break the pack” looked like this:
OBR 1000pts | 10 fighters
Dagger
Necropolis Stalker with Dread Falchions (195pts) +1 Attack Blessing (30pts)
Dire Wolf (85pts, Thrall)
Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blade (55pts)
Shield
Mortek Hekatos (105pts, Hero)
Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blade (55pts)
Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blade (55pts)
Hammer
Abhorrant Gorewarden (225pts, Hero)
Dire Wolf (85pts, Thrall)
Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blade (55pts)
Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blade (55pts)
While it certainly has very powerful tricks to steal uncaptured treasures or even teleport away engaged treasure carriers behind enemy lines it lacks the punch to kill durable targets. Additionally the teleport trick is attached to 20 wounds, T3 body, which isn’t durable enough to base warband performance on. Numbers advantage, where this grand alliance shine the most isn’t that important in the pack. Changing 4 Mortek Guards to Stalker with Spirit Blades with +1S is not making the warband that much stronger, so the idea was dropped. The biggest strength of the whole grand alliance lies in powerful chaff (grave guards, skeleton warriors and mortek guards) supported by resurrection and both of this strengths do not fit the tournament pack well.
Let’s move to Order and just as previously lets look for great tools that can give us advantage. The first observation is that Sylvaneth abilities fit this pack very well. Teleport on cheap bodies to escape being pinned down with treasure, cheap nets to prevent opponent from scoring points in battleplan 1B, cheap archer to score points in R1 of the same mission and a heal that makes killing key targets way harder. The only thing they lack – bonus actions, can be obtained with ally like Calthia or a Questor. I would maybe try to play them myself if I would have any Sylvaneth models. I think my list would look similar to this:
Sylvaneth 1000pts | 8 fighters
Kurnoth Huntmaster with Greatsword (215pts, Leader)
Calthia Xandire (210pts, Hero)
Kurnoth Hunter with Kurnoth Scythe +1A (215pts)
Althaen (80pts)
Spite-Revenant (75pts)
Spite-Revenant (75pts)
Tree-Revenant (65pts)
Tree-Revenant (65pts)
I mentioned a Questor already, but unlike in other packs if looking for ally across Questors I would strongly consider the Duelist because he has the highest number of attacks (Strength matter less as I expect a lot of T6 titans, for five players traveling to the tournament from our local group we have three players with a FOMO/Varanguard in a list) and for his triple:
This ability has potential to decide the battleplan 4B or prevent opposing Hammer from getting to treasures in 1A and potentially do many other things.
The other Order faction that has great tools for this pack are Vulkyn Flameseekers. They are a bit “net resistant” in battleplan 1A thanks to all of them having ranged attacks that can be buffed by Ignite weapon.
I mentioned that I expect a lot of big T6 targets that might be required to win, Flameseeker Thanes have a great triple to serve as a “can opener”:
This ability is difficult to calculate on the fly, so the math on it looks like this: You have 26% to inflict 2*AV(ability value) + 4 damage or more; 40% to do 5 + AV damage and in worst case 33% for exactly 6 damage. With high triple (fives or sixes) this means that you have 1/4 chance to “kill” half of FOMO Crusher, if you are less lucky then you have 2/5 chance to take a third of his life. I like this chances. But lets not forget about treasures and this faction also has a great tool for them:
This ability and a mobile ally means that during single activation Drothmaster (fighter with this ability) can do a very high tempo play where the dwarf goes for the low hanging fruit in form of a close treasure and using this triple shoots an ally to a distant one, with an ally keeping all activation opponent must decide between engaging the ally to prevent it from running away with treasure or going for still unclaimed ones.
The list I tested to see how I like 2 mentioned triples:
Flameseekers 1000pts | 6 fighters
Bloodwrack Medusa (275pts, Hero)
Vulkyn Runefather with Drothvault Greataxe (150pts, Hero)
Drothblood Thane +1 Move (155pts)
Drothblood Thane +1 Move (155pts)
Drothblood Thane (140pts)
Drothmaster (125pts)
The Drothmaster felt great, but the list was extremally triple hungry. I felt that I needed to use ability dice in every fight to gain an advantage. I might have liked the list more (and I plan to play more thane based flameseekers in the future) if not for the horrible dice rolls that ruined a lot of plays that should work. Good thing is that this experience led to buying new dice set and I no longer feel like my dice have the sixes removed from them. I also figured that with 6 bodies and no objective tricks I might autolose third round of the tournament. Thane profiles seem great to blend chaff and this sadly isn’t the tournament to do that.
The next place I would look for list ideas would be a Stormcast list supported by Calthia, but I feel like Stormcast fighters fighting against FOMO Crushers (I really do expect a lot of them) and Destruction Titans (especially brewgit buffed) will fight an uphill battle and low numbers that might be a problem during “objective round” and lack of “dirty tricks” like nets or teleports made me look for tournament list elsewhere.
Lastly lets look for answers in Destruction. First of all, we the amount of missions centered around killing (treasure missions are basically kill missions in disguise) there aren’t many better tools than Destruction titans buffed by Brewgit signature ability:
The first list I tested followed a simple formula: As many Destruction titans as possible supported by chaff with great abilities and my list ended looking like this:
Ogors 1000pts | 7 fighters
Crusher +1S (265pts, Hero)
Crusher +1S (265pts, Hero)
Crusher (245pts, Hero)
Boggleye (70pts, Ally)
Brewgit (70pts, Ally)
Quiv (45pts)
Bushwakka (40pts)
For the titans in a meta that I expect to be very elite heavy Strength 6 is a must to fight against T6 opposition from Chaos (and some from Order). Especially with a Brewgit on our side. I already won a tournament win Gutlord + Brewgit combo so I know how strong a pair of Ogor and Brewgit really is, but with 3 attacks the damage without any buffs was unreliable, that’s why this time its a priority to take titans with 4 attacks and this is why I moved to a cheaper option of Strength buffed Crusher.
After playing the list I was unhappy with chaff, as easy to kill fighters are a problem in some of the missions and decided to move to Ironjawz to get access to few better tools:
Tougher chaff in Ardboyz that wins chaff v chaff fights and can survive with treasure longer
Access to You messin’ for the “objective round”
Similar cost but tougher titan in Megaboss
After few different versions I ended up with the list below and this is the list I submitted to the tournament:
Waaagh! 1000pts | 7 fighters
Dagger:
Orruk Megaboss +1 Attack (255pts, Leader)
Orruk Ardboy with Ardboy Big Choppa (80pts)
Shield:
Orruk Brute with pair of Brute Choppas (140pts)
Orruk Ardboy with Ardboy Big Choppa (80pts)
Hammer:
Crusher +1 Strength (265pts, Hero, Ally)
Brewgit +4 Wounds (85pts, Ally)
Orruk Ardboy with Ardboy Choppa and Orruk-forged Shield +1 Move (95pts)
The blessings I took are for the following reasons:
I wanted my titans to have S6 and wanted 4 attacks for more reliable damage.
I needed a secondary treasure carrier with 4″ move, that’s also the reason for a shield on an Ardboy in Hammer
Extra Wounds on Brewgit adds extra body for You messin’ calculations and make my most squishy fighter less likely to die
If someone would wonder why I didn’t take two Megabosses, its to avoid two extra pointed targets in battleplan 4A.
There are some weaknesses in this list, like vulnurability to nets (IJ reaction can counteract it in some cases) or lack of ranged damage for first battle round of 1B. The first is not something most lists can avoid and as far as second goes then I have Brewgit to look for 2VP rounds later on. Maybe I could find a better list, but due to very late tournament pack publication, family situation and work related travel I had less time than usually in such situations.
6. Format
I was planning another “Overthinking Format” article, but due to limited time and “unsportsmanship behavior” that the format promotes I decided against that to not “promote” unwanted situations and decided to move my thoughts here. The problem I have with the format comes from 2 things:
Strength of Schedule tiebreaker coexisting with removal of major victory (minor and major defeat are still here)
Strength of Schedule tiebreaker coexisting with bonus tournament points for killing a winning player leader
Both points lead to a situation where the optimal (from both players perspective) game result is a victory + minor loss with winners leader dying. Strength of Schedule tiebreaker puts you higher when your opponents get points and during a game you can “grant” this points to your opponent (when winning) at no cost to your game result. I don’t like the system where the winning strategy is to win by as little as possible and I don’t know what I will do during 4th round with the knowledge that dropping a treasure so my opponent can get minor victory is a “correct” play. The fix for kill a leader problem is simple – grant extra points to a player that killed enemy leader and didn’t lose his. For the other problem I don’t have solution, as I get why they did it and I kinda agree with the reasoning behind it (removing advantage that experienced player gets when facing a newcomer), but maybe removing the major win from only the first round of the event would be enough. I know it isn’t the big problem as most player will not look for such “exploits”, but with potential for few 4-0 players the tiebreaker situation should be rock solid, especially with event this big.
If you are interested why the bonus points for killing a leader were not included in listbuilding, its because the TO added it after I was done with listbrewing and I was testing my final list, so my leader having T5 and 35 wounds might cost me some “tiebreaker points”, but at least its difficult to kill for the purpose of battleplan 4A.
7. Expectations
I will do my best to win, but with the complex pack that is very difficult to “solve” I won’t get a (over)preparation edge I sometimes get, or have less of it than I would like and due to very limited testing time I don’t see winning as a realistic expectation. Best players from all over the country will come, so I expect all games to be difficult and exciting. The name of the paragraph demands some answer so my humble/arrogant (depending who you ask) answer is: top quarter of standings. Wish me lack and I hope my new dice set will not disappoint me like previous one did.
As always thanks for sticking to the end and I hope you found some value/entertainment in my text. I will soon update this part with my tournament score and we will see how right or how wrong I was.
EDIT: I ended up 6th with 3-1 score =) more details soon
Overthinking Warcry 